Do you find yourself thinking that maybe you’re just in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong things? What if that’s not true. Amber Albee-Swenson joins Julie Lyles Carr for a conversation you don’t want to miss about our current celebrity Christian culture, how that can impact your contentment with your life, and why we need to elevate our understanding of ‘ordinary.’
Listen to “Contentment vs. Complacency with Amber Albee-Swenson” on Spreaker.
Interview Links:
Find Amber Online | Facebook | Instagram| Twitter
Book: Chosen For More: Just As You Are
Transcription:
Julie Lyles Carr: You’re listening to theAllMomDoes podcast where you’ll find encouragement, information, and inspiration, for the life you’re living, the kids you’re raising, the romance you’re loving, and the faith you’re growing. I’m your host, Julie Lyles Carr, let’s jump into this week’s episode.
Have you ever felt like maybe you’re not in the right place at the right time, doing the right thing? Like maybe there’s something else you’re supposed to be doing. And maybe there was a bigger thing you were supposed to be accomplishing and maybe somebody else that you should have been? I’m Julie Lyles, Carr hosted the AllMomDoes podcast, and I certainly can relate to those feelings. And I have some good news for you today, I have Amber Albee-Swenson with me today, and she’s going to help us unpack where some of those feelings come from, why we do that kind of monologue to ourselves and how we can learn to rest in who God has made us to be, and exactly where he wants us to be doing the things he has called us to do so, Amber, thank you so much for being with me today.
Amber Albee-Swenson: Super, super excited to be with you.
Julie Lyles Carr: So give us a little bit of backstory on you. Before we started recording this episode, you and I got to chat a little bit about the very different environments in which we’re living in right now. You are in the midst of crazy, crazy snow storms. And I’m going to have to turn on my air conditioner later today. So, so tell listeners where you hail from and what your life is like. All those things.
Amber Albee-Swenson: I’m from Southeastern Minnesota. I’m married. I have four children. They are growing up. My oldest is 21. My youngest is going to turn 14 soon. So through the toddler diaper stage I think I’m uniquely qualified to write the book that I did, Chosen For More, because I went to school for creative writing literature. My ambition was to be a bestselling novelist. I had no ambition to get married or have children. And turns out, met the man of my dreams and got married the second I got out of college and quit writing for quite awhile. And then I just thought, you know, how can God use what I have to offer? And I didn’t think he could, which was so silly. And so for years, and years and years, I just made money at odd jobs. And then someone asked me to start writing a Bible study to use that church for moms. And I did it, and I realized that I, I love writing Bible studies. I love teaching Bible studies, and really started grounding me in the fact that, you know, God puts us all in these unique places and he gives us things to do while we’re right there with what’s right in front of us. And we don’t have to go looking for someone else’s life, or we don’t have to wish that we were somebody else, but we can just lean into what he gives us to do.
Julie Lyles Carr: Amber, I think that it is so much a part of the mom culture, and I don’t think this has changed, I’ve been a mom for quite a while now, and I’ve been a mom over, almost a intergenerational kind of situation because from my oldest child to my youngest children, they’re 16 and a half years. So I have to tell you, there are some things that have changed significantly from when I had my first child, not the least of which is the incredible advancements made in car seat and stroller technology. Can we just have a moment for a hallelujah on that? I’m, I am absolutely amazed at how far things have come in, just my tenure and mothering. But the thing that I don’t think changes, even though things in culture change, even though conversations change, something that still seems to be part of the vernacular is this sense of, oh, well I’m just a mom. Or there are also for women, those messages about if you’re not a mom within a faith community, sometimes that faith community can feel a little judgy in that way. Well, you know, then what is the purpose of your life? What are you going to be? What are you seeing and what has remained consistent to you when you look at the wrestling that women are doing with identity? the wrestling that women are doing with trying to determine who they’re supposed to be, how to serve all those things.
Amber Albee-Swenson: Well, I would agree with you wholeheartedly on both of those things. So let me just unpack them one at a time. First of all, the, just a mom thing, I have experienced both. I’ve been a working mom, but I also was a stay at home mom for a time. And I very much fell into that. When people would say so what do you do? I would say I’m just a mom. And several years into that, I realized that I needed to change that. I will correct women all the time now, when they say I’m just a mom. You’re not just a mom. What you were doing is so important in the kingdom; when you take on your duties and wholeheartedly tried to bring your children up to know the Lord. When you are being the best spouse that you can be. And what I have found is that stay at home moms, and women in general, even women who their parenting has done, but they’re still at home… You know, I kind of think that we keep the world running. You know, we’re the ones who go and pick up the person who has a flat tire. We’re the one who someone needs a, a ride to the clinic, we’re giving them the ride to the clinic. When the neighbor comes over and says, Hey, I’m out of a. Well, I went to the store yesterday. You know, so I think we can really short cite ourselves in, in, in our place in the world by saying I’m just this. Embrace that role right now. Embrace it wholeheartedly.
And that’s something I had to do too, because when I first started staying at home, just staying at home, quote unquote, for awhile, I was, I didn’t see it as the important work that it was. And it’s so easy to fall into, you know, getting up and staying in your sweat pants all day and not working out and you know, spending more time on social media than you should. And then I sort of had this aha moment where I was like, you know, I can take this as a job and get up in the morning and get ready and get dressed, and look at it as the things that I have to do today, instead of just getting done, what I, I can.
And for me, I have found my sweet spot is working part time, just because but it does keep me motivated when I’m at home. When I do have my off hours, I tend to take those hours more seriously than if I’m just, if I have too much time on my hands, I sometimes wander down past . So I tend to correct women who say I’m just a mom and I say, embrace it, lean into it. Do the best you can. Look for opportunities to serve, right where you are. As far as the women who don’t have children. I have two very, very good friends, women that don’t have children, I should say. And Neither of them have ever married. Neither of them have had children and they have embraced these lives of incredible ministry.
It doesn’t matter what your place in life is. If you embrace that role, and if you can just do what’s in front of you instead of constantly looking over the fence at the other person and saying, man, I just wish I had their life. You know, my friend who I work with quite often in ministry who isn’t married, doesn’t have children, she travels like a crazy person for work. She gets to do all kinds of exciting things that is just not practical for me to do and my role in life. And so she she’s just embraced this wherever God takes her. That’s where she goes. And that’s where she does ministry. She has a very fulfilled life.
Julie Lyles Carr: And I think that room that we need to give each other as women in our communities of faith to stop this business of trying to call one thing more noble than another when it comes to some of the calls on our lives, is a really critical step and being supportive of other women and really showing the way and how we can live fulfilled lives as women who yes, have different pursuits have different interests, but we’re all heading towards serving God the best that we can. You know, part of the tandem that I see, that’s really interesting right now, Amber, is this idea that we tend to minimize ourselves when we are moms. We tend to minimize ourselves as women and a lot of ways. There’s a lot of really interesting conversation happening about how women will really kind of pull back in the workplace and, and they are doing different things and engaging different ideas to almost not come across as too strong or too quote, unquote bossy or all of these things that we deal with a lot of times that become monikers for women who are clear and have clarity about where they’re headed. At the same time in that, in that environment of sometimes pulling back and that environment of saying things like I’m just a mom and feeling guilty if you’re not doing outside work of a certain nature, we also have a culture within our community of faith that’s really elevated christian celebrities. I mean, let’s just call it what it is. And that’s not to say if someone has achieved a certain level of notoriety and popularity for the ministry that they’re doing, that there’s something intrinsically wrong.
However, my concern is that it’s creating a situation for a lot of us by which we’re evaluating what we’re doing, and we’re evaluating how we are serving, and we are evaluating our walk with God, based on the level of notoriety, likes, followers, engagement, all of the buzzwords that are out there. So what is your word to women who would stand back and say, okay, all right, Amber, I’ll stop saying, I’m just a mom, however, my life seems really ordinary and God seems to mightily use those who are in front of the camera, behind the microphone, or have the publishing deal or whatever… how do you encourage women to see that maybe they’re right where they’re supposed to be while at the same time, there can be those people in our lives who are hiding when God could have something that looks a lot different than what they’re currently doing, and they’re kind of hiding behind an expected role. How do you navigate that with the women that you help lead?
Amber Albee-Swenson: Okay. Two things. So first of all, the apostle Paul says, make it your ambition to lead a quiet life. I think we sometimes lose sight of what a blessing it is to live that quiet life. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing to be able to go to the grocery store, to be able to be on vacation with your kids and not have anybody know you. You know, I can go out anytime of the day, anytime of the night with my kids throw a hat on. I don’t have to worry about anybody recognizing me. It’s not a problem. And I love that. Those who have been given much, much is expected.
I think the other thing is that we have to remember to just be faithful with what God has given us. Period. I went through a point in my ministry years ago, so I self-published my first four books and, you know I was under the idea that, you know, I publish a book and I would just instantaneously, everybody would recognize me, everybody know who I am, you know, I’m on focused on the family. There you go. She made it not at all, not even close. And so I remember a friend specifically, I remember having coffee with a friend and she said to me, Amber, are you going to keep doing this? I mean, you’re, you’re making no money. You’re barely coming out even from your publishing things. Why do you keep doing this? And I said, you know, I remember when in the Bible, when Jesus said all the people were falling away and he looked at his disciples and he said, are you going to leave too? And Peter said, Lord, where, where would we go? And I said, I have come to the conclusion that God has called me to women’s ministry and to children’s ministry, and I am going to be faithful in what he does, what he calls me to. If he calls me to write another book, I’ll write another book. If he doesn’t, not a problem. I’ll do what he wants me to do, whether that’s teaching Sunday, school, vacation, Bible, school, Bible history, whatever he wants me to do, that’s what I’m going to do. And I’m okay with that. I think we have to be very, very careful because there’s a thin line between looking up to someone and idolatry. And we do a disservice to ourselves and to the person that we’re looking up to when we make them an idol, right? That’s that’s the sin of the old Testament constantly was that the people fell into idolatry.
We are not supposed to worship our worship leaders, and we’re not supposed to look to them for all the answers. And we have to look at them as chosen instruments. God is using them and they have a specific role and praise God when they fulfill that role, but they are in the same boat as we are. Desperately in need of God’s grace forgiven and trying to point people to Christ.
And so for anybody out there, for moms again, it’s just comes back to embracing your role. Don’t underestimate how important it is to teach Sunday school. I’ve taught Sunday school for 18 years now, and I might have 10 people in every class, every year. Right. So that’s only 10 people. Well over 18 years, those 10 people, if you invest in those 10 children lives for that year, and let’s just say they grow up and they stay in the Lord and they become Sunday school teachers, and they invest. The exponential way that those little seeds you planted along the way can produce a harvest. Don’t call something small, like teaching Sunday school, that’s a huge thing.
And you can be impacting future generations for years.
Julie Lyles Carr: I would have women come to me when I was on staff at a large church and over women’s ministry there, I would have women come to me and say, I really want to make a difference in the lives of women and what they were asking for, honestly, Was the microphone.
And I would say over and over again, to the point that I’m sure that some of them got really tired of it, but I would say if you really want, if you have a true heart for women’s ministry, you will go teach Sunday school because you are teaching tomorrow’s women how to walk. You are sharing experiences. And there were those who would take that and really run with it. And there were those who no, no, no, no, that’s not my call. And I’m not trying to push anybody to do something that is not what God is calling them to do. But what I am saying, and I’ve had to do this, a deep dive on this in my own heart, Amber,
so I’m not pointing fingers at anybody, at anybody it’s at myself. But what are my motives? Why am I driven to look at what other people are doing? And the different activities and the different opportunities God has given other people. And why am I doing some of the things I’m doing? Is it trying to achieve what I think they have? Is it for the notoriety that I imagined that they seem to live in? These are questions that I think are a big deal right now in our Christian culture, and I don’t know that you and I today are gonna be able to figure it all out. But I do love that reminder that what Paul tells us is to know how to lead a quiet and contented life.
We just don’t seem to put a lot of value on that anymore. Why do you think that shifted? And again, I love all the language around personal growth. I love all of the ideas of pushing ourselves harder of dreaming, bigger of looking toward being able to do things that we didn’t know that we could do, that maybe God has put into our hearts, or called us to do, even when we feel like we just want to put our heels into the concrete and he has to drag us across the finish line.
But why do you think we’ve gotten into this notion of everything has to be big and public and known for it to count?
Amber Albee-Swenson: Social media. I think we’re seeing it. I think social media is such a part of our lives now and you know, I’m, I’m 47, so I lived a good part of my life without social media. Before I got on it, I was very slow to join Facebook. I just didn’t have a whole lot of interest in that at all. But now we have people, you know, a video can go viral, right? So you put out a little video clip. It goes viral. And somehow we think that if a million people like it, then we’re doing the right thing. But we cannot in God’s kingdom assume that if people like what we’re doing, we’re necessarily saying the right thing.
We have to make sure in God’s kingdom, that we’re aligning ourselves with the word of God. And sometimes that means what we say, most people are not going to like. And I think too, you know, discontent always comes from Satan. That is not from God. So when you were just discontented, and there’s some discernment that needs to take place, because I do believe that God puts dreams in our hearts.
Right? So when God called Isaiah, he said, who will go in and speak for us? And Isaiah is that here I am, send me, send me, like, please pick me. And I’ve been that person. You know, I’ve been that person like, Lord pick me. I want I’m I’m in the wings. I’m ready, I’m waiting. But I’ve also as a matured and as I’ve grown in my faith, I’m just as happy to pray for the person who’s got the microphone.
I don’t care who it is because I just want the word of God to get out. I want people to be encouraged in the Lord. And with every responsibility, boy You were going to answer to the Lord for that. So be very, very slow to take the mic because God says, you know, not everybody should try to be a teacher because teachers will be judged more severely.
And so we have to be careful. And, and I think that goes back to what you’re saying, you know, go teach Sunday school. One of the reasons we teach Sunday school is because it makes us dig into the word all the time. We’re growing our faith. And so the more you’re in the word week after week after week, you’re growing in that wisdom and maturity. Then when you get the microphone, you’re more likely to be in line with what God’s word says, instead of just saying, and I say, nobody cares what Amber has to say. Okay? I mean, we need to go back to the word. What does God say?
Julie Lyles Carr: I want to expand that notion of what the mic, the microphone is, because I’ve come to believe that it is how we present ourselves on social media. It is a literal microphone. It is anywhere that we are given any kind of platform, whatever size, shape, breadth, reach we think that has, all of us to some degree in our lives, do have a, we are behind the mic in some way. And that place of wanting a bigger and bigger mic, whatever that is, can be really powerful. We’ve seen the power of being able to leverage social media, of being able to leverage podcasts and radio and all kinds of things that help take the light into dark places. That’s an amazing thing, but we’ve also seen where the seduction of that mic and wanting it to be, have bigger provenance than we think it might have at the moment, can also be extremely problematic within our own hearts. I’m not even talking. There are people who handle that level of platform very, very well. I’m not talking necessarily about the places where we’ve seen big challenge. I’m just saying within our own hearts to really do that deep dive and understand what’s going on.
Now Amber, I think one thing that’s interesting in our culture today as well, is we, we tend to have this thing, at least I feel like I’m seeing it, where we want to trade out some of the traits God has given us. And let me give you an example of what I mean by that. My daughter Journey and I were talking the other day, I’m what’s classically called an ambivert, so I can go to the dinner party and be very happy and enjoy being with everybody, but it drains me. My husband’s a true extrovert. He is so pumped after being in a huge group of people and I’m ready to go home and get a book and shut out the world. I do enjoy public events and being with other people. My daughter journey is probably more of what you would call a classic introvert. She’s pretty content just doing her thing and having a smaller group of friends. Doesn’t need a big group, all of that.
And so she and I were having this conversation the other day and she brought up something I thought was so profound. She said, you know, I am seeing so many articles all the time that talk to people about how to be more extroverted. How to be more socially forward. How to be more enigmatic in their social experiences. And she said, however, I never seem to see anything that talks to extroverts about how to be more introverted. I started laughing. Man you have nailed it. It really is interesting that we tend to elevate certain traits in people, what I would call God, given traits in people. Things that we call leadership, things that we call extroversion, things that we call taking charge things that we call innovation… and we elevate that above the traits that God also gives people, which can be things like a contentedness with being home. And a thoughtfulness and a listenership that may be stronger than somebody who’s always guiding the conversation. So how do we learn to discern the places that we may be beating ourselves up for a trait God gave to us for a great reason? And how do we learn to be more aware of how we’re evaluating the traits of some of the people around us, so that if we feel like somebody should be more outspoken or we think somebody should stay home more, whatever we think the thing is, how do we work with those traits and honor those traits that God has given us?
Amber Albee-Swenson: Well, I’m an extrovert. And let me see if I can get this right. My good friend said that introverts think to speak, and extroverts speak to think. And I can tell you as a true extrovert. I can’t tell you the number of times that I’m pulling my foot in my mouth. So I, I don’t know why anybody would want to be an extrovert. Honestly, I think it’s a beautiful thing when you are an introvert and you, you think first and you think things through, and then you say things in this poignant way. I think too, again, this comes back to staying in your lane. We can spend our whole life looking at everybody else and saying, why can’t I be them? Or we can just, especially in a, I would say, change your prayer life. You know, in your prayer life, instead of saying, God, why am I not her? Say, God, what do you have for me to do? Open my eyes. Show me what you specifically want me to be doing. Because God loves to put his people to work right where you are like, he’s not going to, sometimes he says, oh, there’s a place in Africa I want you to go. But more often than not what he is calling us to is what’s right in our neighborhood. What the needs of our neighbor, that pregnancy counseling center… listen, the counselors who work at pregnancy counseling centers, I had a chance to meet some recently, they’re heroes. Nobody is singing their praises.
Nobody is clapping for them, but day by day, they’re faithfully going to their job and they’re changing the world. I think for every person who was an apostle Paul, who is a missionary, a pastor, even a Sunday school teacher, if you have people behind the scenes praying, they are every bit as important in your ministry as the person who’s talking. My mom quit going to my speaking engagements years ago, and she said, you know, Amber, I think I’m just going to stay home and pray for you. And I have always felt like she gets more credit than I do because she’s behind the scenes on her knees. And you know, the apostle Paul asked people to pray for him. We’re all in this together. So whether you are the introvert or the extrovert, whether you are the one getting up to teach the class or whether you are the woman in one of the seats, when you see that leader is kind of struggling to figure out an answer and you’re like, Lord, give her the words, you are equally important in God’s kingdom. And we so get into trouble when we start putting a value on this role has a lot of value in God’s kingdom. That’s not what the apostle Paul said.
We are all part of the body. We all have a role. And one role isn’t more important than the other. We’re all needed. We’re all necessary. We just have to embrace what we have.
Julie Lyles Carr: Unpack for me, because you write about this, you speak about this, we’ve been talking about the contentedness with the lives we’ve been given, and learning to lean into that and learning to embrace the traits God has given us and to stop looking extant for what we think we should be doing, and instead look at who’s really created us to be. Now, the other side of that coin, and these are so closely related, I think it can be really difficult discern the difference, is the difference between contentedness and complacency. So unpack for me how you see those two things. Because again, they can seem like very close cousins. They might even seem like they’re the same thing for some people, depending on the way you’re wired. So, what is the difference, and how do we avoid complacency while pursuing, which I realize this is an ironic way to say it, but while pursuing contentedness.
Amber Albee-Swenson: So for me, complacency is not putting in your full effort. You know, just, I could show up to my Bible studies sort of like looking things over a little bit and calling it good. I choose not to do that. I want to really study what I am going to present so that I can offer the best to the women who come. Contentedness really is just saying, in this season and let’s face it, all of us have very different roles with each season. What I can do in one season, I can’t do 2020, a lot of us found our roles drastically changed. You know, those of us who are traveling, we’re not traveling. It’s just so many things. So if you could, we could have in 2020, that was a perfect time to become complacent.
Well, if I can’t, if I can’t travel and speak, I might as well just roll over and take some time, have a vacation. What a lot of us did. And thankfully I had a good friend who started pushing me to do this, and it was beautiful, we got on and did our online Bible studies. We did ministry different. It wasn’t the same ministry. I mean, it, it was doing much of the same things, but we were doing it online. And so complacency to me is just not living up to the full potential of what is in front of you to do for the Lord. Whereas contentedness is whatever God calls me to do in this season, whatever role it is. I know that he’s on the throne.
I know that he’s put me here. I know that he’s given me these opportunities. I am going to do the best I can to glorify him with what he has given me right here. And you know, so much of this is God looking at our heart. Are you faithful in the living thing? The little things? If you’re not, you’re not going to get big, bigger things.
And I remember hearing a long time ago, David Crowder, the musician, David Crowder, back when he was in Texas, he, you know, people would always come up to him and want to join his band and he’d give them the shaker, and they’d be so disappointed. Like, no, I’m a guitar player. Well, I don’t want the shaker. And he said, if you can’t do the shaker, I can’t give you anything else, you know? And so be faithful in the little things. Be content with whatever role God has given you. If God wants to move you somewhere else, he will do it. You will not be able to get away from… I went years and I I’m embarrassed to say it,
I mean, I said, I published my first book, I self published and I thought, this is it. Bring, bring it all on. And I went years without anybody noticing me. And then I just sort of, kind of went to this place of saying, okay, I’m going to be faithful in what you put in front of me. When I started working for Time of Grace, and writing for them, blogging for them, which then became a podcast, I didn’t apply for a job. They sought me. So when God wants to move you to a different role, into a different position, You won’t have to necessarily claw your way to get there. He, he’ll open the door and it’ll be right. So I’m not saying that you don’t have the ambition to try, or to put yourself out there, because it wouldn’t have been a bad thing for me to have gone to Time of Grace and asked for the job. I’m just saying there’s a difference between being content and trying to claw your way out.
Julie Lyles Carr: Right. I think that’s such an important distinction because I think that’s bled over at least with myself and with a lot of the people that I interact with, and my friends who have been called into certain levels within ministry, there is this sense that we’ve got to strategize and we’ve got to fight for it, and figure out the next thing. And that’s different than just being faithful, faithfully, doing what you’re supposed to be doing, whether that’s in a season where you’re home raising kids and that’s your primary role, or you’re doing some proprietary blend of part-time work and childbearing, or you’re working full time or whatever the thing is. You’re so right, Amber. I mean, if God wants to make it happen, he can make it happen, whether we’ve earned it or not. And I do think within our culture, there’s certainly a sense of, you got to earn it. You gotta earn it. You gotta earn it. Which is hilarious when you think about how God has called a variety of different people throughout the ages to do things that they never could have done. They were never in the right position for they weren’t living in the right place. They didn’t have the right skills and we called them to do it. Anyway. I think that’s such a beautiful way to distinguish those two things. Amber, where can listeners find out more about you find more of your great writing your podcasts?
Amber Albee-Swenson: Yeah, so you can either look me up on amberalbeeswenson.org, or timeofgracestore.org, either of those places will put you in touch with my work .
Julie Lyles Carr: Fantastic. You’ve got a new book out called Chosen For More: Just As You Are. I love, I love that tandem of a title. That’s fantastic. And we’ll make sure that Rebecca gets those links for everybody in the show notes.
And hey, friend, if you’ve been listening today, wherever you get your podcast, if you would go and leave us a five-star rating and review, because we would love to share your review on the podcast with all of our listeners. Amber Albee-Swenson, thank you so much for being with me today. And I just so appreciate this conversation. It’s a great one for my heart to have, right. And I know that so many of our listeners will feel the same way. Thanks so much.
Amber Albee-Swenson: It was such a pleasure.
Julie Lyles Carr: Check out the show notes for all the links, info and other goodness from this week’s episode, with a big thank you to our content coordinators. I’ve got a request, please go like, and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. It really does make a difference in helping other people find the show. And I’ll see you next week here at the AllMomDoes podcast.
