What’s the difference between an involved father…and an intentional one? And how can moms partner with their kids’ dads in their parenting journey? Pastor, author, and speaker Jon Tyson has a fresh look at fatherhood for the 21st century and joins host Julie Lyles for an insightful and practical conversation about being a dad.
Interview Links:
- Follow Jon Tyson | Twitter | Instagram
- Get a copy of Jon’s new book: The Intentional Father: A Practical Guide to Raise Sons of Courage and Character
- Intentional Family Conference Sept 24-25 in Bakersfield, Calif.
- Council of Dads
- Church of the City
- Primal Path
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Transcription:
Julie Lyles Carr: You’re listening to the AllMomDoes podcast where you’ll find encouragement, information, and inspiration for the life you’re living, the kids you’re raising, the romance you’re loving, and the faith you’re growing. I’m your host, Julie Lyles Carr. Let’s jump into this week’s episode.
Today on the AllMomDoes podcast, I’m Julie Lyles Carr, your host. I have Jon Tyson with me today. Jon is one of these amazing, I’m going to say it, renaissance guys he’s lived. It feels like several lifetimes. When I look at your bio, Jon, you started out like not here in the U S and you are now in the absolute middle of New York City. Catch us up on who you are, where you herald from, and how you got here.
Jon Tyson: Well, Julie, thanks so much for having me on the show. It is a joy to be here. Yes, so I’m originally from Australia. So, I grew up there until I was 20. I became a Christian the weekend I turned 17 and a Pentecostal youth. And had one of these radical supernatural senses of supposed to come to America.
So, when I was 20, I got a scholarship to study theology. And I’ve lived in the United States two decades now I’ve lived in New York city for the last 16 years. I’ve been a pastor in a church planted here. I met my wife the first two weeks I was in the US, and we got married pretty quickly after that.
So, we’ve been married 23 years, two kids. I have a son who’s 21 and I have a daughter who we just dropped off last weekend at college. So, we’ve just hit the empty nest scene and it’s a big transition.
Julie Lyles Carr: Yeah. Yeah, we are, we’re making our way to the empty nest. We have eight kids, so five of them are now out of the house and three of them are still home. And I got to tell you, Jon three homes still feels like I’m still buying. Like I’m feeding up battalion. I’m still making 27 chicken breast and then wondering why at the end of week and there’s still leftovers. It is a big switch and ours, of course, is not as a full-on as your nest re fledging. What’s been the biggest change so far in having both kids dropped off?
Jon Tyson: You know, there was a strange silence in our house and I think that’s, that’s the thing we’ve noticed the most. It’s just, if I’m not talking in my wife’s not talking, there’s sort of an eerie silence and I saw, I’ve got, I’ve got to adjust that I like silence, but it’s kind of like, what is that? Oh, that’s the absence of the children.
Julie Lyles Carr: That’s the absence of the noise. Yeah. I am amazed at the reduction in mess. And here’s, what’s fascinating about that is every one of my children to a T you would have told you that they’re not the ones responsible for the crumbs, the extra socks, the pencils laying around, the post-it note, confetti like none of them had any responsibility in that. And yet the more of them, we launch the less of that we see. And so there’s some quantum lesson in there. I’m not completely sure what it is, but there’s nothing the people to are blind.
Jon Tyson: That is absolutely true. It’s my wife and I looking at each other going it’s or it’s me. Let’s be honest with one another.
Julie Lyles Carr: Yeah, it’s absolutely true. What is the biggest change to you? The biggest differences from living in Australia to living in the US, and in the fact that you are in the US you’re living in a pretty rarefied air of New York city, which is sort of in some ways, the apex, some believe when it comes to American culture. For others, they would say that it’s, you know, the dirge of American culture. And then for those of us who live in Texas, of course, we would be concerned that you’re not actually in Texas, which Texans would probably say that Texas is the height of American culture. So unpack for us the difference for you that you noticed coming from Australia to here?
Jon Tyson: Yes. I have lived in Texas, so I spent a year and a half in Dallas. I went to Bible college in Dallas for a little while, and I don’t want to cause trouble, but I’m just telling you, Dallas is not the apex of America.
Julie Lyles Carr: I, you know what, I’m going to have to go with you there. I’m in Austin. So I can say that. And I’m, I’m going to agree with you.
Jon Tyson: Good people. But I prefer New York. When I first moved to the US I think there was so many things that seemed similar, you know, so both speak English a lot of shared sort of like cultural TV shows, movies, media, those sorts of things. But basically, there’s a very, very different scripts between American life in Australia. And I’m married an American and she will often say I’m in a cross-cultural marriage, you know, and I think some of the ways that America deals with its heroes, the way America values winning, the way Americans have a sense of possibility that that many ways anything can happen here. There is I think a general sense of American exceptionalism like this country sort of is the center of load culture. There’s an element of truth to it. You know, Australians are very easy going. They have a thing called tall poppy syndrome, whereas America worships its heroes, Australia cuts them down to size so they don’t become arrogant. There’s a lot of sarcasm in Australia in culture. You were founded with a violent revolutionary war of independence, whereas Australia was founded by convicts. So there’s like definitely a psychological dent. We’ve got a bit of a chip on our shoulder as a nation. So yeah, but a lot of folks who American, a lot of folks from Australia who are in the United States value the outsides of the America and it’s wider here. And so there’s things that America offers that couldn’t be fully realized in Australia. And so, a lot of church leaders you find from Australia, love America thrive here. And I definitely, I think would fall into that category.
Julie Lyles Carr: That’s really fascinating because I think there are a lot of Americans that fantasize about going to Australia. And I’ve had friends who have made that transition to Australia because they felt like it was in some ways, maybe a kinder, gentler, the best of the American ethos kind of experience. So it’s interesting to hear someone get to reverse engineer that back here to the states.
Jon Tyson: Oh, so it’s not a good time to go there right now. Let me Texan in Australia with the kind of COVID lockdown restrictions.
Julie Lyles Carr: I would not be tolerated too well. And I don’t blame him for that in the least. And John, you have preached and talked and created content, and you’ve been a thought leader in a variety of areas and a recent project of yours, I think my listeners are going to be really fascinated, which is the topic of fatherhood and being an intentional father. You partnered with Barna to do some research on the current state of American fatherhood.
I find the whole concept of fatherhood right now in our culture to be a really fascinating one, because when I think back to when I was raised and the ideologies that my dad had surrounding was due to him what he needed to do as a dad, to be a dad of honor, to equip his children, all those things. I wouldn’t at all say that the ethos that he lived under is now antiquated.
I don’t feel that in the least, but I do think there’s some things that were missing perhaps in the construct of what that was for him. But now I feel like sometimes when I hear people discuss fatherhood and maybe the generation, that’s just a little bit younger than me, the fathering that they experienced.
When I look at some of the challenges of parents today, trying to determine what their roles are, what their responsibilities are, all that kind of thing, it feels like there’s some things that are missing in the heartbeat of some of our parenting today. What did you find out in that research with Barna and how men identify as dads and identify the challenges and the conflicts of that role?
Jon Tyson: Yeah, there’s definitely, there’s definitely generational changes. There’s I mean, we, we see that the role of the family, how men are perceived in culture is a whole reconfiguration of family dynamics and structures is something that has changed and accelerated between generations. So yeah, there is definitely some huge disparities. And I think it’s important when we’re talking about research, cultural research, big things to keep in mind, number one, it’s actually God’s word. That is the ultimate foundation, regardless of culture, that we should have been measuring ourselves against. And secondly, all of us have to take into account different personalities. So, there’s God’s word and there’s individual dads with their own stories and I don’t want to just prescribe over the top of them I have to fit some sort of script or mold. That being said that definitely are some trends that are revealed. And one of the big ones is this, over all fathers in the United States have no plan or do not feel ready to bring their sons in from adolescence into manhood. And I think probably those that’s probably high, you know, as somebody I’ve been a pastor for 20 years, I rarely meet their dad that’s like, oh, I’m really excited I’m having a son. I feel completely competent and confident to bring him into skillful manhood who would in a world like today. So, it’s the research says it’s at least half of dads who feel overwhelmed and don’t have some sort of plan, but I think it’s probably higher than that.
Julie Lyles Carr: Right. Why do you think dads are feeling that way? I mean, I’m going to speculate here and you can correct me, but when I think about my husband, when I think about my two brothers, two of my very best friends, and I think about the dads that we had, my father-in-law and my dad were very different men, and yet they shared a sense of responsibility and equipping.
And I always felt from my dad that he felt highly confident as a dad. And, and maybe, maybe we needed some wiggle room for some transparency of, yeah, I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m making, I’m improving as I go. However, it, it felt like as a kid that he really had it together. And I think my husband would say the very same thing about his dad, that his dad made some generational change in his parenting style that was very successful. His dad was one of the best dads I ever knew. And yet I’m encountering guys now that they either didn’t have dad is involved in their lives or dad was grappling so much with this idea of who am I supposed to be? How am I supposed to not be steeped in misogyny or maybe a role that diminishes my wife or my daughters.
And yet at the same time show an example of what it means to be a man, to my sons. I mean, do those factors, do you think that plays in?
Jon Tyson: Yeah, I definitely do. I mean, in the opening chapter, I talk about five kinds of fathers. And so I say, if you basically study any generation, these five fathers will be present and different times of history, accelerate and accentuate different kinds of fathers. The first one is the irresponsible father. This is the dad who basically does not acknowledge that he’s brought a human being into the world. They just bail. Then you’ve got the ignorant father. This is someone who’s totally overwhelmed. Doesn’t have the skill framework, child psychology, understanding or personal competence to raise their kid.
Then I talk about the inconsistent father. This is a man who was torn with personal ambition and broken so they’re in they’re out. They’re engaged, they’re disengaged, they’re emotionally connected. They’re emotionally absent. Those fathers do tremendous damage. And then you talk about the kind of father that I think is many people perhaps stereotype, which is the involved father. This is the dad doing the sex talk. This is the dad showing up at the games. This is the dad teaches a kid how to drive. And what he basically does is he takes the cannon of human knowledge and makes it available for his son. But very often this can fall short of what a son needs, or a daughter needs.
And it’s particular, they’re not talking about the fifth kind of father, which is the intentional father. And a difference between an intentional father and an involved father, the intentional father asks what specifically is in this young person’s heart. Who has God made them to be what is their destiny? And then how do I fill in the gaps of maybe what I don’t have and how do I partner with others to give them what they need for their specific call. And so you can actually get a lot of kids who their dad was involved and he was a good dad, but they’re still deeply wounded because they felt misunderstood. Or the dads projected, or they held up a standard of morality or truth that didn’t take into account or consider who this they specifically were.
So, to me, the intention of fathers, the fathers customizes what they had not helps their kid understand who they are and then customizes a plan to raise them with those sorts of specific things. And I think what we’re seeing right now is the gold standard in the last 20 years has probably been the involved dad because we’ve been so busy.
The fam has been so fragmented. Divorce. People are working longer hours. They’re commuting further. There are more challenges in the home. So, it’s like just be involved, that’s why wives nag, perhaps, you know, saying that it hasn’t just show up, just get involved, take him to a movie, do something. And I want to sort of like empower dads to think a level higher than that, and order to equip them. The point of this book, to inspire and equip them to see how they can become an intentional father, because I honestly believe it will only get increasingly hard to figure out how to rise our kids
Julie Lyles Carr: You and I share such a similar heartbeat because my first book raising an original is about customizing our parenting for our kids. Yeah, exactly. And this, I love this distinction of involved versus intentional because you’re so right, Jon, we can do so many things that feel like we’re trying to be engaged and we’re showing up. And that is important. We know that people bear wounds from dads who never came to anything or didn’t seem to be very engaged. However, it doesn’t carry the same kind of legacy. If it doesn’t see your kid, your individual kid with all the things that make them them, as part of that goal of parenting, otherwise we can sometimes default to, this is the kind of dad I want to be, instead of asking the question, who is the dad? This kid needs me to be.
Jon Tyson: Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly it. Yeah.
Julie Lyles Carr: How did you begin to build that into your own parenting schema with your son and with your daughter and what was the wake-up call for you to, okay, wait a minute. Maybe I’ve been this kind of a dad, or I experienced that kind of adapt or I’ve been showing up to the tee ball games, but is that really creating the kind of legacy forward that I want? What was, what was a moment for you like that?
Jon Tyson: Well, I think part of it was just like reflecting on my own story. Like one of the things I’m trying to do in this book, the fact that 25% of the book is helping dads make sense of their own story so they don’t just drag that brokenness and their own drama into the life of his son. And this can often happen when we just like repeat our family dynamics or we sort of like make these valves and definitive statements. I’m not going to be like my dad, which means that the plumb line is brokenness rather than health. And so, in my own story, making sense of my own story, I was like, okay, some of the pain points and my dad’s a great guy, but some of my pain points, I was like, I was profoundly misunderstood. He had good, true generic wisdom that was misapplied to my specific heart and style. And I was like, okay, I need to not just jump in here and think I know what all I really need to listen to my son.
So, I would stop asking him questions. We did every personality test under the sun, that we could get a hold of to help him. Whenever he discovered a new kind of music or whatever, instead of saying that music’s junk, or why don’t you like my preferences? I would try and say, tell me what you like about this and I really spent time sort of trying to listen and to understand him and helping him understand himself. So yeah, part of it was my own personal wounding and then it was like just a desire to listen and to help my kids know who they were in the world. And I mean, we see this in the Bible. It says Jesus, that he had to grow in stature and favor with God. And then he went through a process of development with his heavenly father and with his understanding and proximity in the world.
And I thought, that’s what I want. I want to be able to do. I want to help my kids grow and you grow best when you know, and understand who you are, what you’ve still have to accomplish, where the gaps are. So yeah, basically just sort of began to build honestly, A folder in my computer under each of my kid’s names where I just would pile stuff that I observed, that they loved, that they liked that they listened to. The aptitudes reflections, and we began to host basically weekly discussions about these sorts of things.
Julie Lyles Carr: I love that level of intentionality because a lot of times, I mean, let’s face it to talk about wanting to customize a parenting experience for our children can sound a little esoteric and people think, okay, and to say, observe your kid can seem a little esoteric, but I love this idea of having that folder on your phone or in your computer or in a journal, whatever you have to really list down what you’re seeing and how you want to be able to engage in that. Such, such a great tip.
I find a lot of moms out there who really want to help their spouses be the kind of dads they feel like their spouse could be. They may even have some kind of understanding of perhaps a difference in personality between the dad and the son or the dad and the daughter and moms wanting to come in and try to knit that or try to speak into that or try to coach that lovingly, maybe.
So, a lot of my listeners are moms and a lot of, you know, we do have guys who listen to podcasts too. Let’s talk to those moms for a minute. If there’s a mom out there and she’s feeling like, you know, my husband’s a great guy, but he just doesn’t seem to be engaging the same way. I don’t feel like he’s really getting who this kid is.
Or, or maybe even we have a son who is so unlike his father, and this is difficult for dad because he, this kid maybe is a little quieter, maybe a little more passive, and dad’s really struggling with that. Equip us. Tell us what we can do as moms to be tender in this. To share our heart, but to also not get so interfering in the whole thing that maybe we start seeing some resistance, or maybe we’re not even having the right things to say about a situation.
Jon Tyson: Yeah. Well, number one, let me just say thank you to all your moms who are out there. You are making a huge difference in the lives of your kids. My life was profoundly impacted by a loving kind thoughtful mother. And you know, I’m going through sort of like we voluntarily did a one-week counseling marriage tune up as empty nesters. We’re like, okay, let’s just spend a week doing a deep dive so we can get tuned up for possibly another 50, 60 years of life together. And so I did this this morning and part of the reflection was like how grateful I am for a mother who knew me and saw me. And also, thank you moms here. You’re probably doing more than you’re aware of. Secondly, I would say, you know, like there’s, each man has a different way to be motivated, but I think there are generalities.
So, women typically don’t tend to respond well to criticism. Like you don’t criticize your wife into the behavior that you desire. Men don’t typically respond to nagging. And so if you continually nag your husband you know, like the track record on nagging is like pretty low in terms of fruits. So I think number one, I would say you’ve got to build a family culture so that all the pressure isn’t on him.
You know, so like the family culture has to carry the weight and the dynamics so regularly doing shared family activities where everybody’s in the room and those relationships are being built. You know, brother, sister, mom, dad, like across the board and the ecosystem of thriving is the way I would put it.
And then I would say, Come alongside. And I think men respond incredibly well to encouragement, you know? So, like, Hey, when you did that, I saw that he really responded and I just one of affirm that you are seeing our son’s heart. Like, way to go. Can I support you in that? Do you need, you know, is there any way I can take some of the the stress off you related to our sun or whatever. So yeah, I think it all family dynamic catching him getting it right, rather than nagging him all the time off of what he’s not doing. And then I don’t, I don’t say this lightly. I think that the importance of prayer interceding for a divine connection between father and son is very, very important.
History has been shaped by the prayers of mothers. You look at Susanna Wesley and her fruit with John and Charles Wesley. There’s always praying others, having a massive impact and God can do through your prayers and your husband’s heart, what you can never do through nagging in the natural. And I think there’s tremendous power in committing to pray.
And, and then like if you come up with some insights or whatever, subtly putting them around or passing them on. You know, and creating a kind of shared communication about your parenting too. My wife and I would have a weekly meeting and we would sit down and we would basically say to each other, Hey, where do we think each of our kids are at?
We just did, we did this last month. What do we think we can, our kids are at right now? What do they need from each of us? And then how are we going to take action on it this week? So, my wife is, I talked to my daughter last night and I said to her, Hey mom, you’re up, she’s in college now. This is going to sound like a dad lecture.
You need to just get on the phone and she’s like, no, absolutely. I’m on. I think I know exactly how to speak to her or whatever. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s partnership in parenting. It’s figuring out how to do that and having high communication. And if you haven’t established any of that and you come in really hard, I think it will produce discouragement.
So being proactive creating a culture. You can start today to do this. I think there’s fruit over time and never underestimate just like the power of intentionality in small ways over time.
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Julie Lyles Carr: Distinguish for us, because I think it’s really important to hear this from a man’s point of view, how you would define nagging, because we’re living in a culture in which we are encouraging women to speak up more, to speak about their needs, to not be so reticent in communicating the things that they’re seeing. To do it in ways that are bolder to not be apologetic. And yet, sometimes in those dynamics it can be difficult to discern. Okay, am I doing those things in a right heart, in an a right manner? Or is this going to be perceived as nagging? So for you from a man’s perspective, What do you, how do you identify when something seems to cross over from a partnership observation, a Hey, I was noticing this and then veers strongly into what begins to feel like nagging, even if sometimes the communication style is subtle?
Jon Tyson: Yeah. I mean, I would say like a lot of it’s about tone. Is there accusatory language. Like you never spend time with your son. When are you ever going to? It’s obvious can’t use those sorts of accusatory times often produce a defensiveness. I’m not saying it’s, it’s not necessary at times, but a consistent drip, drip, drip of accusation.
I guarantee you, he probably, is struggling with stuff that is not telling you about. He probably kind of feels the world is so different than when I grew up. I mean, I can tell you this right now, if you grew up without a phone parenting, a kid with a phone is a challenge. The way they post, the way they process reality, the way they access sexuality, build friendships online, that level of connection is very different. And he might be struggling to sort of like grasp that world.
Another thing to keep in mind, he might be dealing with an issue, and he likes spiritual authority and confidence to address it in these kids, because he doesn’t have authority in these in his own life. And so there could be a reason for passively. Again, I think that that could be sponsored. So yeah, I’m a big believer.
I both parenting through this and my marriage funds on this is what we call social contracts. There it’s an awkward term, but it basically means shared agreements. And so the agreement is like, Hey, let’s sit together and talk about a plan on this. Let’s talk about who’s responsible. Let’s talk about a timeline.
Let’s talk about the consequences of not doing it. And then let’s talk about the blessings and vision that we have for it. And then you let the contract do the job you don’t nag every day. And if something sort of like breaks the agreement, you sit down and ask the question, Hey, sort of what happened? was the time constraint false. Were you just like slacking on this?
This is something stressing you out that you need support on right now? So, you sort of like have to have a rich and logical relational dynamic that you’re interacting in, rather than just saying you’re not doing enough. You’re not doing enough. You’re not doing enough. Because that’s probably what the debt is going to eat.
You’re not doing enough. You’re not doing enough. So yeah, it would be probably cutting your requests in half in terms of the amount of time that you’d like that you were bringing this up and pushing it in. And then again, I think reinforcing sort of the behavior that you want to see. And if this all sounds sort of like, what am I doing?
Did I marry a two-year-old? And I was like, no, you married a man. And men, men are motivated I think in many ways. Quite differently, obviously there’s exceptions and each personality is different, but nagging to me, it has an accusatory time it’s repeated and intrusive in unwelcomed ways. And it, it doesn’t nag when it exists in a better, more holistic communication structure.
Julie Lyles Carr: This concept of sitting down and really almost project managing this together is so powerful to me. I spoke to a group of men one time on marriage and one of the things that the Lord showed me that I shared with them was, listen, you guys are in business meetings all the time, make this, make this a business proposal. Like put it together, get out the yellow notepad and sketch this thing out and what you’re looking for in the relationship and the ways that things can be improved upon, or you want to see changed, or you want to celebrate. That same concept applied in the parenting arena, I think is really powerful, because one of the things that I take couples through when I do pastoral counseling for premarital is the sinless assessment, which is by Les and Leslie Parrott. And one of the pages that’s on there, Jon, it is the simplest tool, and yet it’s the one that we ended up spending a lot of time on. At like, after all the personality assessment and how to interact and the designators for what kind of relationship you have, that page is this the simple things that we have to get done in a family structure, everything from taking out the trash to paying the bills, to who’s going to feed the dog.
And the couple goes through and puts into a column who did that in their home. And how they think that should be handled in the home that they are developing with this other person. It is startling to me with all of the cool psychological stuff and all of the cool terms to learn and everything. On that page,
that is the one that you can really see people stop and take some time to think through. So those functional things like that are so powerful. I love this idea of moving from a place where there’s a danger of being seen as a nag and moving it into kind of a business conversation about how to partner well in this experience with the kids. I just love that.
Jon Tyson: I totally agree. I tell people, dads, dads. Often at work, utilizing skills, problem, solving challenges, save some of that energy for your heart. Bring some of the best of your goal setting, vision casting, work ethic, bring, bring that to your home. And those clues about boundaries and designations work. It’s funny. I originally took my son through the content of the book, the intention, the father was called the primal path, and that’s exactly what I did. I started when he was 13 and I put a date on the board and said, my son is leaving home. What do I want him to know? Who do I want him to be? What do I want to do, be able to do by the time he leaves home?
And then I worked backwards with a six year strategic plan and that book is the 6 year strategic plan. With me talking through what happened when I took my son through it. So yeah, my, my life and my parenting is proof that like, that can bear real fruit. And so if a dad feels, I said, my book is designed for overwhelmed, but determined fathers.
So, if a dad is like, no, I’m doing good. I’m like, I just want to high five them say keep going. But if a dad is also not determined, it’s like, this will be too much for you. So, the sweet spot is that dad who says, look, I don’t, I don’t know necessarily how to get it right, but I’m resolved that I will do better and pass on generational blessing in this book. I think we’re really hit at home in a dad’s heart who’s in that place.
Julie Lyles Carr: Love that. I first became aware of the primal path you did with your son through Phil and Diane Komer, who are friends of ours. And we’re actually all going to be speaking at a conference together, out in California in just a few weeks. If you’re listening to this, check it out. It’s going to be in Bakersfield, California. Jon’s going to be there. I’m going to be there. Phil and Diane told me about the primal path and the different activities that you had taken your son through. Absolutely brilliant. So incredible. And I want listeners to go grab your book, the intentional father, so they can see this because this is so beautiful how clearly you laid out the adventures, kind of the bucket list that you wanted to take him on before he launched into the wide world. Now tell me, I find this to be interesting. Let’s figure for a moment and talk specifically about dads and sons. You know, I realized that some of my early parenting, I was trying to parent my kids to live into the generation that I came into adulthood in. And we are now, and we always have, but here’s the revelation I had a few years and was, I’m actually not supposed to be preparing them for what I walked into an adulthood. I’m supposed to be somehow future-casting for them into what the world’s going to be.
The kind of skillset, the kind of tenacity, the kind of suppleness. Yeah, all the things, including how to manage technology and all kinds of things. So, what are you telling dads now about the world their sons will launch into, and what are the things that may be, need to stay really top of mind, as we think ahead that, like I said, we’re not parenting for today. We’re parenting to get them launched into a tomorrow that we don’t have access yet, but maybe we can, maybe we can see some shadows playing on the wall and we need to be paying attention. What are you seeing in that realm?
Jon Tyson: Yeah, I mean, my goal was actually for both of my kids, I did something a little different for my daughter, but it was the same principal was like, I want you to have godly wisdom.
Look, there was a grain to the universe that reality has a structure and a nature. And you prosper to the degree that you live in God’s world God’s way. And you live in a time of foolishness. The Bible talks specifically about five kinds of fools, and I want to show you how to not be one of these kinds of fools.
So to me, the whole thing was built on get wisdom. Here’s how to be wise because wisdom, if you have the toolkit of wisdom, you can apply it in any situation. It’s almost future proof. And so the one thing, you know, as it says, it’s not a, it’s like a bubble get wisdom. And so to me, wisdom is like a superpower in a time of foolishness, and so the degree to which we help our kids understand what biblical wisdom is, understand how wisdom is applied around different issues and around different circumstances. Give them practice room to fail when they do act like fools, because every teenager will, at some point as we still do with parents sometimes.
But getting that, getting them to literally ask the question, how do I respond to this in a godly and wise way, puts a framework and sets them up to at least approach it with, you know, the right perspective that I think God will honor, and the holy spirit will meet them in a given the specific guidance. So, if there’s one principle, you know, it would be the fear of God, the love of God and biblical wisdom.
Julie Lyles Carr: I adore that. And part of what I adore about it is my in-laws were both elementary school teachers and then principals, and they were fantastic parents. And they took that very preset that you’re talking about. And my husband was raised under this moniker, is it smart or is it dumb and really at the end of the day that’s wisdom.
Right. And Mike has talked about, he would be in a situation, you’d be like, oh man, that seems like it’d be a lot of fun but is it smart or is it dumb? And it was just a really quick pause to do a wisdom check on certain ideas and its insurers and things that maybe he needed to stop and do a little bit of a check on.
So, I love that. Let me ask you this because I do have some moms out there who are saying, oh, I would love for my kid’s dad to be intentional. I would love for him to show up with spiritual wisdom. I would love for all those things to happen, but he’s now, absent from the home or he someone who we are not on the same standing and our faith.
And so he’s really not the spiritual leader in our home. What do you say to a mom who’s in that situation who may be feeling like that she’s got to fill some of the gap either through a little literal absence of a dad or by a dad who just doesn’t really want to be engaged in that way? Doesn’t necessarily live his life by the same precepts.
Jon Tyson: Number one, I would say that these sorts of mums are heroes. You know, like you are carrying a disproportionate amount of weight and a want, just want to say, thank you for that. And the God sees you and he knows what you’re doing really matters. I read a book, I loved, it was a book called council of dads.
And in it, it was a dad who was diagnosed with cancer and realized he might not be around to have these two little girls have the father figures in his life. So we actually went and appointed a whole council to basically fill in the gaps so they didn’t have. I love that idea. And I think there’s wisdom to that. At kids best, he’s going to need more than just a dad. He’s going to need coaches, mentors, community. He’s going to need women. He’s going to need Godly peers. He’s going to need definitive events that mothers can’t give their sons and not every dad can give their son. So, number one, Sort of alleviate the pressure.
You have a primary role, but it will require a large community. So, rely on that community. One of the advantages I believe Christians have is that we have built in social networks. You would be amazed how isolated and fragmented many families are without a Christian community. So, we have that rely on it, lean into it, lean into the programming of your church, lean into
some of the other godly men that are around. Take, if he has a coach, give the coach a little bit of feedback. Hey, just so you know, he’s, dad’s not in the picture a lot. And you know, I really appreciate the role you’re playing, you’re sort of stepping in and contributing to that. The second thing I would say is, and I’ve read several books similar to the primal path where it’s moms who didn’t have a dad in the room who got a couple of dads to sort of play that role.
So maybe this mentors so you can come along. And they may not be able to do everything. They could do one specific thing. So yeah, I would say be creative, look at the community and the resources that are around you. If you have a dad who might be, have a different, has a different faith perspective, surprisingly, I mean, there was definitely differences in the research in the book, but you’d be amazed at how many dads still want to get it right. They still want to leave a legacy. They still want to do better than their father did. And so, I would not, I wouldn’t guilt him with like, you’re not raising our son in a godly manner.
I would put it more like, I know you want to leave a good legacy in our son’s life. I know you want to be able to send them into the future. So I would appeal to like the base instinct that’s in a fathers heart to empower their sons, and then again, I would like double down on prayer for that and pray that God would use him.
And that even in some of this process, he would find faith because everybody’s going to realize this. Every dad’s going to realize this, you have to give you a kid, a moral framework. And when you, a lot of men have gone through life, without that framework being challenged. You know, so a lot of men don’t want their sons to swear when they’re two. Why? Even, even the harshest dad said, it’s like, well, that’s just doesn’t feel right.
You never know what God will do in this process to sort of turn his heart. So I wouldn’t push him to what’s the noble instinct, encourage him. And then you know, double down on a prayer connected to that.
Julie Lyles Carr: John Tyson, you’re such an amazing blend of poetry and pragmatism. So appreciate all of the ideas that you’ve brought to the table. Where can listeners find out more about you? Find the book, the intentional father find out more about the primal path, all the things?
Jon Tyson: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I’m on social media at jontyson, Jon Tyson at churches in New York, it’s jontyson@church.nyc, very simple URL, and you can buy the book and all of that sort of stuff at Amazon. And if you’re interested in the product path course, that’s primalpath.co., but I want to highlight the book. I think honestly, it’s the cheapest, most accessible, concise way that I’ve articulated this. You can read it in a couple of hours. It’s a short book written for busy dads. So the feedback so far from busy dads has been strong. So hopefully it’ll really add value to that.
Julie Lyles Carr: Right? Absolutely create an action plan. It’s fantastic. And if you’re in the California area, Jon and I are going to be out there, be sure and join us in September for the intentional family conference. We’d love to see you, Jon, I so appreciate you being here. We’ll get all these links in the show notes that Rebecca puts together each and every week. God bless you and your family and your empty nest. I hope you enjoy the quiet.
Jon Tyson: Yes. Thank you so much. It was great talking with you today.
Julie Lyles Carr: Check out the show notes for all the links, info and other goodness from this week’s episode with a big thank you to our content coordinator, Rebecca. I’ve got a request, please go like and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. It really does make a difference in helping other people find the show. And I’ll see you next week here at the AllMomDoes podcast.
